Inshallah in this post we will be proving that the Salafi/Wahhabi/Taymi beliefs are against the ijma of the muslims, including the Hanbalis and Atharis that Allah exists without a place (Makan), By quoting the top scholars that are relied upon in all sciences of islam it is impossible for them all to have deviated from the correct creed.
“In conclusion: Allah The Almighty has a place (Makan), and that his place (Makan) is in the Heavens, and the Prophet – may God’s prayers and peace be upon him – asked the slave girl, and he said to her: “Where is God?” She said: In the Heavens”
والخلاصة: أن الاستثناء هنا متصل، وأن الله تعالى له مكان، وأن مكانه في السماء، وقد سأل النبي – صلى الله عليه وسلم – الجارية فقال لها: “أين الله؟ ” فقالت: في السماء
So Ibn Uthaymeen says Allah has a place based upon the hadith of the slave girl, note inshallah in another post we will be providing the actual understanding of this hadith
“We have come to ask you about this matter (i.e. the start of creations).” He said, “First of all, there was nothing but Allah”
So in the beginning before creation only Allah existed not the Throne, no space, time, places, the earth, nothing existed apart from Allah
Then he created the throne, space, time places and the earth, Now if Allah Doesn’t change this means the same way Allah existed before the creation is the same as after he created the creation!!!
Now we will bring the statements of the righteous Ulma
“It is not correct to comprehend Allah by being in a place. And some of our companions cited as evidence in negating the place for Allah in the words of the Prophet, may God’s prayers and peace be upon him: “You are the Manifest, and there is nothing above you.” And you are the Batin, so there is nothing below you.” And if there was nothing above him and nothing below him, Therefore Allah cant be in a place (Makan)“
فلا يصح إدراكه بالكون في مكان. واستدل بعض أصحابنا في نفي المكان عنه بقول النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم: «أنت الظاهر فليس فوقك شيء» . وأنت الباطن فليس دونك شيء “. وإذا لم يكن فوقه شيء ولا دونه شيء لم يكن في مكان. وفي رواية الحسن عن أبي هريرة رضي الله عنه انقطاع، ولا ثبت سماعه من أبي هريرة، وروي من وجه آخر منقطع عن أبي ذر رضي الله عنه مرفوعا
“Allah is described it with exaltedness and greatness, Not with places, Directions, and limits (Hadd), Because they are the attributes of bodies. Hands are only raised in dua to the sky…. Just as Allah made the Kaaba the direction for Salah, And He was in eternity. Before the creation of space and time. He has no place or time.”
ووصفه بالعلو والعظمة لا بالأماكن والجهات والحدود لأنها صفات الأجسام. وإنما ترفع الأيدي بالدعاء إلى السماء لأن السماء مهبط الوحي، ومنزل القطر، ومحل القدس، ومعدن المطهرين من الملائكة، وإليها ترفع أعمال العباد، وفوقها عرشه وجنته، كما جعل الله الكعبة قبلة للدعاء والصلاة، ولأنه خلق الأمكنة وهو غير محتاج إليها، وكان في أزله قبل خلق المكان والزمان. ولا مكان له ولا زمان.
“And He is The Exalted, The Great, and it is not permissible that you say what is meant by him being Exalted is being in a direction or place (Makan).”
وهو العلي العظيم ولا يجوز أن يكون المراد بكونه عليا العلو في الجهة والمكان لما ثبتت الدلالة على فساده،
“The heavens and the earth are a creation from amongst His creations and what they contain – Isa (Jesus) and his mother are part of it. By dwelling in it and displacement (Al hulul wal intiqal) And it is proven that they are in a place (Makan) and, therefore they are two slaves belonging to the One who has sovereignty over the heavens and the earth and all it contains.“
فإن السموات والأرض خلق من خلقه وما فيهن، وعيسى وأمه من بعض ذلك بالحلول والانتقال، يدلان بكونهما في المكان الذي هما فيه بالحلول فيه والانتقال، أنهما عبدان مملوكان لمن له ملك السموات والأرض وما فيهن. ينبههم وجميع خلقه على موضع حجته عليهم، ليدبروه ويعتبروه فيعقلوا عنه
So according to Imam At Tabari, Jesus cannot be God because he is in a place (Makan)
“So it is clear that the, the creator of things, Is He who was before everything, He will remain after everything, He is the First before everything, and the Last after everything, and He was when there was no time, era, day, night, darkness, light (except for the light of His Magnificent Face), sky, earth, sun, moon or stars, and that everything apart from him is created, regulated and made. He was alone in all their creation without partner, helper or supporter. He, the Powerful and Dominant.”
فتبين إذا أن القديم بارئ الأشياء وصانعها هو الواحد الذي كان قبل كل شيء، وهو الكائن بعد كل شيء، والأول قبل كل شيء، والآخر بعد كل شيء، وأنه كان ولا وقت ولا زمان، ولا ليل ولا نهار، ولا ظلمة ولا نور إلا نور وجهه الكريم ولا سماء ولا أرض، ولا شمس ولا قمر ولا نجوم، وأن كل شيء سواه محدث مدبر مصنوع، انفرد بخلق جميعه بغير شريك ولا معين ولا ظهير، سبحانه من قادر قاهر
“Allah The Almighty is above everything, And the meaning of his exaltedness (Uluw) and abovness (Irtafa) is not an exaltation of a place, Because Allah The Almighty is transcendent above having a place (Makan), Rather its an exaltation and abovness of authority (Sultan)“
والله تعالى عال على كل شيء وليس المراد بالعلو ارتفاع المحل لأن الله تعالى يجل عن المحل والمكان وإنما العلو علو الشأن وارتفاع السلطان
“Chapter: If someone says: Where is Allah? say to him: Where is a question about a place (Makan), and he is not one of those who is surrounded by a place (Makan) and not surrounded by regions. Except that we say: He is on His Throne, not on the meaning of the body (Jism) or being contact, Allah is far above that”
باب : فإن قال قائل: أين هو ؟ قيل له : الأين سؤال عن المكان ، وليس هو ممن يجوز أن يحويه به مكان ولا تحيط به الأقطار غير أنا نقول: إنه على عرشه ، لا على معنى كون الجسم بالملاصقة والمجاورة ، تعالى الله عن ذلك علواً كبيرا
“Ibn Battal said: The Mujassama said Allah has a place (Makan), And it is proved that it is impossible for the The Almighty to be a body or have a place(Makan).”
قال ابن بطال: لا تعلق للمجسمة في إثبات المكان لما ثبت من استحالة أن يكون سبحانه جسما أو حالا في مكان
Now Imam Ibn Hajar is quoting Imam Ibn Battal but is agreeing with him and has the same belief
“So know that the doctrine of the people of truth is that Allah Glory be to Him, is free from limitation, place (Makan), direction, and time, because all of it it is His creation and possession, and He, Glory be to Him, is greater than being described by directions, or by having limits (Hadd), or being subjects to time, or contained by places (Makan).”
فاعلم أن مذهب أهل الحق أن الله سبحانه وتعالى مستغن عن الحد والمكان والجهة والزمان لأن ذلك كله من أمارات الحدث، وهي خلقه وملكه وهو سبحانه أجل وأعظم من أن يوصف بالجهات، أو تحده الصفات، أو تصحبه الأوقات، أو تحويه الأماكن والأقطار
There is clear evidence has been established that the Creator, The Almighty, is not a body, nor does he need a place (Makan)… Because The Almighty had been and there was no place and He is as he was, Then He created place, so it is impossible for Him to be in place before the creation, Then he took a place ?? after He created it. This is impossible.
وهو أن الدلائل الواضحة قد قامت على أن البارى تعالى ليس بجسم ولا محتاجا إلى مكان يحله ويستقر فيه؛ لأنه تعالى قد كان ولا مكان وهو على ما كان، ثم خلق المكان فمحال كونه غنيا عن المكان قبل خلقه إياه، ثم يحتاج إليه بعد خلقه له هذا مستحيل
“Those of the Salaf who remained silent when hearing the (verses of Sifat) and did not explain them. They knew that the Essence of Allah the Most High is not encompassed by Place (Makan), and it is not described with change or movement“
ان من تقدم من السلف يسكتون عند سماع هذه الأشياء ولا يفسرونها مع علمهم أن ذات الله تعالى لا تتبعض، ولا يحويها مكان، ولا توصف بالتغير ولا بالإنتفال.
“He who draws near to Me by an inch, I draw near to him an arm’s length.” What is meant by the servant’s closeness to God Almighty is closeness by Dhikr and good deeds, Not closeness to Alllah (by distance) by being in a place (Makan). Because that is one of the characteristics of bodies. And Allah is exalted and sancitfied (above that)”
فيه «من تقرب إلي شبرا تقربت إليه ذراعا» المراد بقرب العبد من الله تعالى القرب بالذكر والعمل الصالح، لا قرب الذات والمكان؛ لأن ذلك من صفات الأجسام. والله يتعالى عن ذلك ويتقدس.
“And here, It does not mean place, Because The Almighty transcends having a place (Makan), but rather the meaning is the honor of the position and the exaltation of status”
وعند هنا لا يراد بها ظرف المكان لأنه تعالى منزه عن المكان، بل المعنى شرف المكانة وعلو المنزلة
His saying: “Allah will come to them.” The “Coming” means the unveiling of the veils of ourselves… Because movement and transition cannot be attribute to Allah The Almighty, Because they are the attributes of finite bodies, And Allah The Almighty is not described with anything like that.“
قوله: “فيأتيهم الله” الإتيان هنا إنما هو كشف الحجب التي بين أبصارنا وبين رؤية الله -عز وجل-، لأن الحركة والانتقال لا تجوز على الله تعالى؛ لأنها صفات الأجسام المتناهية، والله تعالى لا يوصف بشيء من ذلك
“Al-Hashwiyya and Al-Mujsama (Anthropomorphits)said: He, Glory be to Him, is upon the Throne, and that the Throne is a place (Makan) for Him and He is sitting upon it“
الحشوية والمجسمة إنه سبحانه حال في العرش وإن العرش مكان له وهو جالس عليه
Now this sounds extremtly simlar to the modern day Salafi movement!!!
Allah – is not a formed body (Jism), Is not a substance, Nor is He similar to anything, Nor is anything similar to Him. The directions do not surround Him, Nor do the earths or the heavens contain Him. He was before the creation of the place (Makan) and Time, And He is now as He was (Before the creation).
الله – بجسم مصوَّر ، ولا جوهر محدود مُقدَّر ، ولا يشبه شيئا ، ولا يُشبهه شىءٌ ، ولا تحيط به الجهات ، ولا تكتنفه الأرضون ولا السموات ، كان قبل أن كوَّن المكان ودبَّر الزمان ، وهو الآن على ما عليه كان
“Al-Mujasama said: (Istiwa) It means Settling (Istiqrar) which the attributes of bodies (Jism)…. And This is impossible for Allah the most high to have.”
وقالت المجسمة: معناه الاستقرار ودفع بأن الاستقرار من صفات الأجسام ويلزم منه الحلول وهو محال في حقه تعالى.
“It is not for Allah The Almighty to be in places (Makan), Because it is impossible for Him to be limited and finite, And that is because it is impossible for Him to have something that is created”
لا يجوز على الله تعالى الحلول في الأماكن لاستحالة كونه محدودا ومتناهيا وذلك لاستحالة كونه محدثا
“As for the Exalted Exaltedness of Allah over His creation, it is understood from the words of Allah Almighty’s saying: “And He is the Omnipotent over His servants”, its the status and a rank, not being in a higher place (Makan), as is established by Ahl al-Sunnah wal-Jama’ah, and even the rest of the sects of Islam like the Mu’tazila, The Kharijites and the rest of the people of Biddah, Except for a group of the anthropomorphic and the ignorant among the Hanbalis who say Allah is in a direction. Exalted is Allah above that.”
وأما علوّه تعالى على خلقه المُستفاد من نحو قوله تعالى :” وَهُوَ الْقَاهِرُ فَوْقَ عِبَادِهِ ، فعلو مكانة ومرتبة لا علو مكان كما هو مقرر عند أهل السنة والجماعة بل وسائر طوائف الإسلام من المعتزلة والخوارج وسائر أهل ، البدعة إلا طائفة من المجسمة وجهلة من الحنابلة القائلين بالجهة ، تعالى الله عن ذلك علوا كبير
Know the people of knowledge have two opinions regarding the hadiths and verses of the attributes. Firstly, The approach of the Salaf, Is that their meanings are not spoken about. Rather, They say: ‘It is necessary for us to have faith in them and believe they have a meaning that befits Allah’s majesty and greatness, with absolute conviction that nothing is like Allah (&) and that He transcends physicality, movement, occupying space and all other attributes of created things.
ومختصرهما أن أحدهما وهو مذهب جمهور السلف وبعض المتكلمين أنه يؤمن بأنها حق على ما يليق بالله تعالى وأن ظاهرها المتعارف في حقنا غير مراد ولا يتكلم في تأويلها مع اعتقاد تنزيه الله تعالى عن صفات المخلوق وعن الانتقال والحركات وسائر سمات الخلق
“Exalted is Allah from being contained by a place (Makan), just as He is sanctified Him from being limited by time. Rather, He was before He created time and space, and He is now as He was“
تعالى عن أن يحويه مكان كما تقدس عن أن يحده زمان بل كان قبل أن خلق الزمان والمكان وهو الآن على ما عليه كان
“know that what is said about drawing near and nearness to or from Allah has nothing to do with nearness of place (Makan) or proximity in space…The Prophets drawing near to his lord and nearness to him is made clear by the honour of his rank..”
: اعلم أن ما وقع من إضافة الدنو والقرب هنا من الله أو إلى الله فليس بدنو مكان ولا قرب مدى بل كما ذكرنا عن جعفر بن محمد الصادق ليس بدنو حد وإنما دنو النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم من ربه.
“It is not permissible to Attribute to Allah movement as we negate motion from Him, and it is not permissible Attribute to Allah stillness as we negate the body (Jism) from Him.“
ولا يحل أن يسمى الله متحركا وننفي عنه الحركة ولا يجوز أن يسمى ساكنا وننفي عنه الجسم
Allah is above the throne, Not with a limitation (Hadd), as the Hadd is for applied to the throne and everything below it. And Allah is above that, He has no place (Makan) and no Hadd, Because there was no place, Then He created places (Makan) and He is as He was before the creation of place.”
“He is not a Body (Jism), Nor a form (Sura)…. He is not contained by a place (Makan), Nor is he subjected to time , Nor is it permissible to say he can be touched“
ليس بجسم ولا شبح ولا صورة… لا يحويه مكان ولا يجري عله زمان لا تجوز عليه المماسة
“(Allah the Most High said): {And your Lord and the angel came, rank upon rank}, and His coming is not of movement, nor a demise, nor of displacement, Because these are only for the comes with a body (Jism) or a substance, so it is proven that he is neither a body (Jism) nor a substance, Then his coming is not of movement or displacement.”
وقد قال الله عز وجل وجاء ربك والملك صفا صفا وليس مجيئه حركة ولا زوالا ولا انتقالا لأن ذلك إنما يكون إذا كان الجائي جسما أو جوهرا فلما ثبت أنه ليس بجسم ولا جوهر لم يجب أن يكون مجيئه حركة ولا نقلة
“And the meaning: He who is in the sky means: His authority, His dominion, And His power. This is the meaning, Because it is impossible for Allah to be in a place (Makan) or described in a direction“.
والمعنى: من في السماء سلطانه، وملكه، وقدرته، لا بد من أن يكون المعنى هذا، لاستحالة أن يكون الله في مكان أو موصوفا بجهة، وأهل المعاني يقولون: من في السماء هو الملك الموكل بالعذاب وهو جبريل.
He did not mean nearness to his place (Makan), Because Allah The Almighty cannot be in a place (Makan), because place is a creation and The Almighty was and there was no place (Makan).
لم يعن القرب من مكانه لأن المكان على الله تعالى لا يجوز ولا يحتاج إلى مكان لأن المكان محدث وقد كان تعالى ذكره ولا مكان.
Imam Ibn Aqil: دفع شبه التشبيه
Allah is indeed Exalted from having an attribute that occupies places (Makan), This is the essence of anthropomorphism!!
تعالى الله أن يكون له صفة تشغل الأمكنة ، هذا عين التجسيم
Whoever thinks or says that Allah himself (Bi Dhatihi) is everywhere or in a place (Makan) is a Kafir. So it must be asserted that He, Glory be to Him, is separate from His creation, For Allah The Almighty was and there was no place (Makan), Then He created place and he is as he was before the creation of place (Makan)
فمن اعتقد أو قال إن الله بذاته في كل مكان أو في مكان فكافر. فيجب الجزم بأنه سبحانه بائن من خلقه، فالله تعالى كان ولا مكان ثم خلق المكان وهو كما كان قبل خلق المكان
‘It is proven by definitive proofs that He, Glory be to Him, Is free from being a Body (Jism) and partiality, And it is forbidden to say about Allah descend to mean moving from a place (Makan) to a place that is lower than it”
ولما ثبت بالقواطع أنه سبحانه منزه عن الجسمية والتحيز امتنع عليه النزول على معنى الانتقال من موضع إلى موضع أخفض منه
He is not a body… Nor can he be conceived in our minds, He has neither direction or place (Makan), He is not subject to time or age, He cannot be described with an increase or decrease, And Has no form…. One is not allowed to ask about him “Where?”, or “How?”
ليس بجسم…ولا يتقدر في العقول، ولا له جهة ولا مكان ولا يجري عليه وقت وزمانلا يجوز في وصفه زيادة ولا نقصان..لا يقال له أين ولا حيث ولا كيف
“Allah is without a place (Makan), so He created the Throne and the Kursi, and He did not need a place, And He is after the creation of the place as he was before its creation“
قال كان ولا مكان فخلق العرش والكرسي فلم يحتج إلى مكان وهو بعد خلق المكان كما كان قبل خلقه
“And He, The Exalted, Is the Creator of directions and places (Makan), and He brought them into existence after they did not exist, And therefore they are impossible for Him. Allah was and there was no direction or place (makan), And he is as he was.”
وهو تعالى خالق الجهات والأمكنة ومحدثها بعد أن لم تكن فهي لحدوثها مستحيلة على الله تعالى، فإنه كان في القدم ولا جهة ولا مكان، وهو الآن على ما عليه كان.
“I heard Imam Abu Furak say I heard Abu Uthman say: I used to believe in the teaching that Allah is located in a certain direction. However, when I arrived in Baghdad, This disappeared from my heart. I then wrote to my companions in Mecca, saying: ‘I have become Muslim once again.”
وسمعت الإمام أبا بكر بن فورك رحمه الله تعالي يقول: سمعت أبا عثمان المغربي يقول: كنت أعتقد شيئا من حديث الجهة فلما قدمت بغداد زال ذلك عن قلبي فكتبت إلى أصحابنا بمكة إني أسلمت الآن إسلاما جديدا.
“On authority of Imam Ibn Furak That Muhammad ibn al-Mahboob said: Abu Uthman al-Maghribi said to me one day: O Muhammad, If someone asks you where is Allah, what would you say? I said: I would say where he has always been, Then he said: If he asks “where was Allah in eternity?” I said: I say where he is now, Meaning that He is as He was and there is no place (Makan), so he is now as he was. So he was satisfied with my response and took off his shirt and gave it to me.”
سمعت الإمام أبا بكر محمد ابن الحسن بن فورك رحمه الله تعالي يقول: سمعت محمد بن المحبوب خادم أبي عثمان المغربي يقول: قال لي أبو عثمان المغربي يوما: يا محمد لو قال لك أحد أين معبودك إيش تقول؟ قال: قلت: أقول حيث لم يزل قال: فإن قال أين كان في الأزل إيش تقول؟ قال: قلت: أقول حيث هو الآن يعني أنه كما كان ولا مكان فهو الآن كما كان قال: فارتضى مني ذلك ونزع قميصه وأعطانيه.
“Allah The Almighty is above that in such way that its is not a place (Makan) or limit for him, Because we agree that Allah The Almighty was and there was no place (Makan), Then He created places and He is as He was before the creation of the place (Makan).”
والله سبحانه فوق ذلك بحيث لا مكان ولا حد، لاتفاقنا أن الله سبحانه كان ولا مكان، ثم خلق المكان وهوكما كان قبل خلق المكان
Defending The Ashari Creed 